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Hey, Bud Selig! Let The Athletics Go To San Jose!

Why are the Oakland A's still playing in their concrete mausoleum? Bud Selig, that's why.

Feb 9, 2012 - Last December, news reports indicated that the Athletics would be granted permission by MLB to move to San Jose by February; I wrote about that here the day after Christmas.

Well, here we are in February. Has anything happened?

::: crickets :::

Granted, February isn't over yet. But the silence from MLB had A's owner Lew Wolff speaking out at a Rotary Club of San Jose meeting on Wednesday. He sounds pretty tired of waiting:

"I’m not going to continue this much longer," he said. "What we want is an answer. We want a ‘Yes, you can relocate and share the territory,’ or ‘You can’t.’ But not having any answer is difficult not just for me, but for the 130 people that work for us, for planning, for our baseball team every year." So what happens if his timeframe expires and there’s still no answer? Would Wolff and his fellow owners sell? He said he’s not entertaining that option yet.

Even if they are interested in selling, who would buy the A's with the stadium issue unsolved? The future success of the A's is almost wholly dependent on getting them a viable stadium, which their current one is not.

The sticking point has been the Giants' unwillingness to give up the territorial rights to San Jose, which they were granted years ago when they were considering moving there. Twelve years after they got a spiffy new ballpark in downtown San Francisco, isn't it time for them to relinquish those? Yes, I know, corporate dollars in San Jose are currently spent on the Giants, and they'd suffer if the A's were right there... that's the argument. But a more compelling one is the fact that the Bay Area's combined population (2010 census figures) is over six million -- larger than the Washington/Baltimore area, which has two teams and would easily support both of them if they won.

The A's have a fanbase that will come out if they win, but won't go to their awful stadium if they don't, which has been the case the last couple of years, and could be the case again in 2012, given the dealing of players like Gio Gonzalez, Trevor Cahill and others. GM Billy Beane, recently extended to 2019, is clearly planning for a future that includes a new stadium.

It's time for MLB to just do it. Wolff said at the Rotary Club that a buyout of the territorial rights "has not been discussed", although he also said that the team would not object if the Giants kept their California League affiliate there. At the same time:

He confirmed the team would be renamed the San Jose A's if it relocated.

It's clear to me that having a strong franchise in a new stadium would benefit not only the A's, but the Giants as well, by increasing interest in baseball in the Bay Area. Though it's true that corporate dollars do go to the Giants' coffers, the average South Bay fan -- who lives 50 or more miles from AT&T Park -- wouldn't change his or her allegiance just because there's a team down the street. If you're a Giants fan, you'd likely remain a Giants fan; any "damage" to the San Francisco franchise would likely be minimal.

This CSN Bay Area article indicates that it's been nearly three years (March 2009) since Bud Selig created a committee to study this issue. And just where does that stand?

MLB spokesman Pat Courtney said Wednesday there was nothing new from the commissioner's office on the situation since Selig's remarks at the owners' meetings last month that the issue was on the "front burner."

Must not be burning very hot or brightly. Time for Bud to broker a deal so that the proposed new Cisco Field can be constructed and the San Jose A's can begin play there, perhaps by 2014.

Bud? Bud? You awake in there?

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Al Yellon

Editor

Al Yellon is a Cubs fan. For that, he hopes you will indulge him. He's seen Cubs failures since 1969, including the agonizingly close playoff misses in 1984 and 2003. For that, at least a bit of... Read full bio


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Though it’s true that corporate dollars do go to the Giants’ coffers, the average South Bay fan — who lives 50 or more miles from AT&T Park — wouldn’t change his or her allegiance just because there’s a team down the street. If you’re a Giants fan, you’d likely remain a Giants fan; any “damage” to the San Francisco franchise would likely be minimal.

This is a long-term thing. A kid born in San Jose right now isn’t going to have the same unwavering allegiance, and in a couple of decades, he/she is going to start buying tickets. A stadium that’s five minutes away will appeal to them more than a stadium an hour away.

Not saying the Giants aren’t being capitalist swine here, but there’s a fiscally sound reason why they’d prefer the A’s to stay away from the South Bay.

by Grant Brisbee on Feb 9, 2012 1:14 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Sure...

… an A’s move to San Jose would create a new fanbase among kids growing up there who wouldn’t know any other team.

But the population base should grow, too, over time, keeping the Giants safe from a drop in fanbase.

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by Al Yellon on Feb 9, 2012 1:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes the population base in the South Bay will grow. It’s the fastest growing region in the Bay Area. What makes you think this growing population will be Giants fans when there would be a brand new shiny A’s stadium down the street?

by notjoemorgan on Feb 9, 2012 6:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Seems like long-term that could go in both directions – the A’s would pick up fans in the San Jose area from being there, but could also lose fans in the East Bay (Oakland and the surrounding communities).

Not sure if it has been mapped out, but I’d be interested to see how the Bay Area’s population breaks down based on distance from the park. I’d be really curious how much of the population base would be closer to AT&T than to a stadium in San Jose.

by Jason Hunt on Feb 9, 2012 1:49 PM EST up reply actions  

It's not just raw distance; proximity to transit might matter more

Considering the traffic in the Bay Area, it may well be easier/quicker to hop the BART across to SF than drive down to SJ. Even if the new stadium gets built near a BART station (or, more likely, BART someday gets extended to it) the cross-bay trip might be faster, depending on where in the East Bay you start.

Of course, some people will be willing to go to any lengths to avoid watching pitchers “bat.”

by J0SER on Feb 9, 2012 1:55 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Completely agree. At some point BART is supposed to get to San Jose, and I have to imagine that as that progresses they’ll try to make that work better.

Lived out in Pleasanton for a very long time, and the traffic is a definite impediment for both teams. But if you live in Oakland, or even Hayward, that traffic to get to downtown San Jose can be extremely bad without even adding in game day traffic. I can’t even imagine what the 280/880 interchange would look like on a game day as bad as it can get right now.

by Jason Hunt on Feb 9, 2012 2:06 PM EST up reply actions  

http://www.instantrimshot.com

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by Al Yellon on Feb 9, 2012 4:43 PM EST up reply actions  

How about

Sesame Street

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
I would like to see Dallas vs the Giants on Thanksgiving, Make it happen NFL!

by Jessy S on Feb 9, 2012 8:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Grant’s point is accurate. Which is why any check written to the Giants should be based on the present value of the future losses from South Bay fans.

by Pete Rukavina on Feb 9, 2012 6:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Sing it brother, Al

Sing it. It’s despicable that this has gone on so long and since this is the big national site, I’ll edit a favorite comment that’s become a rallying cry on AN:

F%@# the Giants.

by Tyler Bleszinski on Feb 9, 2012 1:21 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

(rally) cry all you want…it’s all Wolff et al have been doing ever since he bought the team and tried to get them the hell out of Oakland.

Rally cry, weep, complain, bitch, blame the Giants all you want…it’s nothing new. It’ll make it all the more pleasant when the A’s have to cut the Giants a huge check for compensation.

Wolff new what he was getting himself into and is still blaming everyone else but himself.

by notjoemorgan on Feb 9, 2012 6:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Can't believe I'm saying I agree with Lew Wolfe.

The big thing he’s right about is that the decision has to be made. I have only a little dog in this hunt, but this is more about Bud than A’s/Giants. Having one of your teams and fan bases twisting in the wind for three years is ridiculous! Make a decision and let the A’s get on with their lives. My little dog in the hunt is the slim chance that if SJ doesn’t work out, we’d see the A’s in Portland. Though considering we can’t even find a site for a Triple A team (the site was the problem, not the money to build), that’s really a long shot. But would be too cool.

"There is no sports event like Opening Day of baseball, the sense of beating back the forces of darkness and the National Football League."
—George Vecsey

by extavernmouse on Feb 9, 2012 1:27 PM EST reply actions  

You'll have to fight the mighty Mariners

All of Oregon is their territory, and northern Oregon is exclusively theirs. Every baseball fan in Portland is just a sharecropper on Seattle’s plantation. Though maybe they’d consider it if you handed over the Trailblazers.

by J0SER on Feb 9, 2012 1:50 PM EST up reply actions  

True

But if I were the Mariners, I would give the Athletics exclusive right to to Oregon.

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
I would like to see Dallas vs the Giants on Thanksgiving, Make it happen NFL!

by Jessy S on Feb 9, 2012 8:41 PM EST up reply actions  

I too want them in Portland!

Granted, I live here, but it would work. The city supports the Blazers with the utmost enthusiasm, and the NBA is the only major sports team that we have (soccer doesn’t count). Arguing that Portland competes with Seattle is nonsense. San Jose competes with San Francisco more so (it’s closer). Baltimore competes with DC. Portland is a 3 hour drive from Seattle.

Build a nice new baseball only statium in the Pearl, or on the Southeast waterfront. Or somewhere in North Portland, and revitalize a neighborhood. The possibilities of the good Major League Baseball would do in Portland are endless…

by noelman31 on Feb 9, 2012 3:18 PM EST up reply actions  

"The possibilities of the good Major League Baseball would do in Portland are endless…"

Because Bud and his cronies are all about giving to the community instead of taking everything they can.

I guess we can all dare to dream.

by GBSimons on Feb 9, 2012 3:23 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Build a nice new baseball only stadium in the Pearl, or on the Southeast waterfront. Or somewhere in North Portland

Who pays for this?

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by Al Yellon on Feb 9, 2012 3:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Who pays for this?

People who live in Portland.

by Phrozen on Feb 9, 2012 4:30 PM EST up reply actions  

They haven't seemed inclined to do that in the past.

Why would they do this in the future?

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by Al Yellon on Feb 9, 2012 4:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Because every time a new major stadium gets built anywhere, it’s the people of that state or city who ultimately pay for it.

by Phrozen on Feb 9, 2012 5:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Or maybe

The A’s do, like I’m pretty sure they are already planning on doing in San Jose

isitspringtrainingyet.com

by imstillhungry95 on Feb 9, 2012 6:16 PM EST up reply actions  

TV Dollars are almost as important if not so more than filling seats.

The Yankees have the largest payroll in baseball by far because of their TV revenue. Plenty of teams fill their seats and have a much smaller payroll (Brewers being one).

The Angels are expanding payroll a ton this year because of a new TV deal, not anything to do with filling seats.

Portland is a huge TV market for Seattle. The Mariners would likely have to shave payroll, perhaps significantly without Portland that and not ticket sales would be the biggest hindrance to a move.

Portland’s metro area is 2.2 Million, Milwaukee’s is 1.5 Million, though the Brewers can also draw upon Madison and Green Bay (I assume they own TV rights in Green Bay and Madison though I can’t confirm this) which would bring their TV market up to roughly 2.3 Million.

The reason I mention the sizes is the Brewers new TV deal next year is rumored to be roughly 30 Million per season (up from under 10 Million right now). Now while Portland might not be as engaged in the Mariners as the Milwaukee fans are in the Brewers (due to distance and the team not being a true local team) even if Portland was only a value of 15 Million per year to the Mariners I’m pretty sure the Mariners would have a legitimate gripe to losing out on potentially 15 Million per year in TV revenue.

I admit this is completely conjecture and I have no idea how much revenue Seattle gets from Portland but I do think it’s valid to point out that while it might appear distant from Seattle the loss of revenue could still be significant if a team moved there.

Streak Breakers.com

by Flanyboy on Feb 10, 2012 3:58 AM EST up reply actions  

To answer your question...
Even if they are interested in selling, who would buy the A’s with the stadium issue unsolved?

Larry Ellison. He wants a sports team, bad. He would probably be fine building in Oakland and wouldn’t bother waiting for an answer from the commish.

But yes, your (and Wolff’s) larger point that a decision needs to be made by MLB is absolutely true.

by Billy Frijoles on Feb 9, 2012 1:56 PM EST reply actions  

A decision wouldn't be required

If the Giants simply coughed up the rights to San Jose.

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
I would like to see Dallas vs the Giants on Thanksgiving, Make it happen NFL!

by Jessy S on Feb 9, 2012 8:43 PM EST up reply actions  

The problem with letting the A’s move to San Jose is that you run the risk of weakening a strong franchise in order to prop up a lesser one, which might leave MLB with two mediocre teams competing in the area. People assume that if the A’s are able to get a new stadium, they will automatically become a viable team, but does anyone really feel confident that Lew Wolff and the A’s will actually build a decent stadium. Considering this was the same person who thought building one in the middle of suburban Fremont nowhere near public transportation was a good idea, I have zero faith that the A’s new stadium would be anything but a debacle. Even if they didn’t screw it up, it still wouldn’t be anywhere near as nice as AT&T and the A’s would still be a the second banana in the area. The reason Bud doesn’t want to give the A’s permission to move yet is because he knows this and is hoping to find another solution, even though deep down I’m sure he knows the best option is to let the team move out of the area where they would have a better chance to thrive outside the Giants considerable shadow.

California Leaguers beware: Chris Gloor will strike you out faster than you can say "Quinnipiac", or he would have if he had pitched more than five innings this year before getting hurt...

by crazedcrustacean on Feb 9, 2012 2:53 PM EST reply actions  

Bud Selig is holding out for the A’s to switch leagues (possibly the Japanese, he hasn’t decided yet) before he’ll let them move to San Jose.

Yep still bitter.

by AstroB on Feb 9, 2012 3:26 PM EST reply actions  

I think

he wants them to join the Lunar Baseball League. Or maybe the Martial Baseball Federation

isitspringtrainingyet.com

by imstillhungry95 on Feb 9, 2012 6:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Rimshot time

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
I would like to see Dallas vs the Giants on Thanksgiving, Make it happen NFL!

by Jessy S on Feb 9, 2012 8:44 PM EST up reply actions  

I proposed a very reasonable solution

On these very pages, just a month ago. Nothing’s changed and the solution is still reasonable and do-able.

http://mlb.sbnation.com/2012/1/11/2697389/a-proposal-to-break-the-territorial-rights-logjam-between-the-as-and

Contributor, Baseball Nation & FanGraphs
Twitter: @hangingsliders

by Wendy Thurm on Feb 9, 2012 3:33 PM EST reply actions  

Well there's your problem!

It’s reasonable!

isitspringtrainingyet.com

by imstillhungry95 on Feb 9, 2012 6:11 PM EST up reply actions  

I still like the idea of turning the A's into an arena football team.

Official prediction: The Angels will win the AL west this season.

by RexTookMyStash on Feb 9, 2012 3:42 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Do they know the way to San Jose?

They’ve been away so long. They may go wrong and lose their way.

"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"Tell Gardy there's nobody around to protect him now." Ozzie Guillen

by less cowbell, more 'neau on Feb 9, 2012 3:45 PM EST reply actions  

Rimshot

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
I would like to see Dallas vs the Giants on Thanksgiving, Make it happen NFL!

by Jessy S on Feb 9, 2012 9:03 PM EST up reply actions  

How about this

State and local governments stop wasting tax dollars that can be directed towards many more important projects and to help people, on giant playpens for millionaires to play for billionaires.

If you want a new stadium, with sky boxes, premium seats behind home-plate, and modern amenities, pay for the goddamned thing yourself.

"You know when I'm done ranting about elite power that rules the planet under a totalitarian government that uses the media in order to keep people stupid, my throat gets parched. That's why I drink Orange Drink".-Bill Hicks

by Yossarian22 on Feb 9, 2012 4:37 PM EST reply actions  

That's what they want to do.

You obviously know less than nothing about this situation…

The A’s are planning to pay for the stadium in SJ. all they need is permission to move there.

by Billy Frijoles on Feb 9, 2012 4:48 PM EST up reply actions  

The Giants "Got their stadium"? I disagree, they built their stadium.

The Giants never got a handout, not from MLB, not from the A’s and not from the taxpayers. They kept their team strong as they worked towards privately financing a stadium in San Francisco on their own.
Lew Wolff takes handouts from revenue sharing (which the Giants pay into), he wants a handout in the form of territorial rights from MLB and the Giants, he will undoubtedly demand handouts from a cash strapped San Jose which can;t keep libraries open and is laying off hundreds of police and firemen. Why won’t Wolff do something for himself? Wolff is a terrible owner and should be removed from the ranks of MLB owners like Frank McCourt is being removed.
Lew says he won’t continue on much longer? To quote a former A’s GM, that sounds like a threat to ignored or an offer to be accepted. Pound sand Lew.

It doesn’t make sense to hurt the Giants to help the A’s and it doesn;t make sense for San Jose to subsidize terrible owner and billionaire Lew Wolff.

by sayheykid_1 on Feb 9, 2012 9:12 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

there’s a couple of things – first, the A’s did not “give up” their rights to Santa Clara County, they merely agreed not to contest that they had them. There’s a difference there.

I agree that the Mausoleum is an awful place to see a game. But, I think the point is whether or not a park in San Jose would create more fans. Outside of circa 1989 (briefly), the Bay Area has never shown by attendance that it can support two teams. And cumulative TV revenue presumably would not change wherever the teams are. MLB has to look at that, and I absolutely agree that a scenario where you have two semi-unsuccessful teams, or always one poor sister, is not a solution.

I’d guess that Selig’s delay (outside of him being a horse’s ass) is that he wants to announce a done deal, and what the Giants want is way way higher than what the A’s are willing to spend (or can afford reasonably). Of course the A’s are screwed in not getting an answer, but perhaps the answer is that it simply can’t work and result in two healthy franchises. That’s a PR nightmare to announce – for MLB and for both teams.

Wendy’s linked article is very pointed with the “we don’t know”s, and she’s right, but this is my suspicion of what’s really going on. If we did know, the answer may be that there is no good answer except for A’s to move to a different metropolitan area.

by pumpkino on Feb 10, 2012 12:50 PM EST reply actions  

Giants are Greedy

I am a lifelong Giants fan from San Jose and let me tell you every argument the Giants have is flawed.

NY, LA and CHI are all shared 100%. Why? So that there is market equality amongst its teams and one team cannot corner the other in a bad situation…..Sound familiar?

Ex1: If the Angels want to move to Downtown LA the Dodgers cannot stop them. This may not be practical but keeps options open for both teams in their shared markets.

Ex2: If the Yankees owned Manhattan and did not share it with the Mets the Mets value would go down or Vice Versa. Right now the Giants own 75% of the Bay Area while the A’s own 25%….How is this fair or make sense?

What the Giants have done to the A’s is wrong and Bud Selig has let it happen.

San Jose is 50 miles away from ATT Park in San Francisco. They have a rumored 7,000 season ticket holders in the San Jose region out of 34,000. Those 7,000 people are hardcore fans are not going to change with an A’s move to San Jose.

Only 25% of Silicon Valley corporations do business with the Giants…Why? It is too far away to invest in tickets.

The A’s reside 12 miles way in Oakland right now. They want to move 50 miles away to San Jose. How does this make sense that the Giants are complaining?

The reason why is two-fold:

1. The Giants know as long as the A’s stay in the dump they play in now they will never be able to supersede them again in the market….It happened once and it could again if they were able to get on proper footing. This coupled with the fact a new Oakland ballpark is impossible plays into the Giants position of keeping San Jose off limits.

2. The Giants are terrified of people like me who are Giants fans but will not make the trip to SF consistently to buy season tickets……But who have the $$ easily and would gladly buy 30 games in the club section for a San Jose A’s team near his hometown.

This all tells you one thing…….Bud Selig is a coward to do the right thing and what is best for baseball.

The Giants overstate their claim to San Jose big time and the A’s just want what every team wants….a new stadium in a big city downtown site that is lacking in Oakland.

In fact a new Oakland ballpark on the waterfront would hurt the Giants more and in that case they would negotiate San Jose away as a new ballpark 12 miles away obviously will do more damage to them.

If there was another city offering a free ballpark Selig would force the A’s to move because of his cowardice. He states this situation is complex but he is making far more complex that it is.

The Giants may be hurt by an A’s move to San Jose but that is business and life. They will have to evolve as a franchise and the A’s will be on equal footing in what is a 2-team market.

If you came from outer space today and had to built two ballparks in the Bay Area where would they be? San Jose and San Francisco not Oakland.

The A’s are coming to San Jose, it is only a matter of time. Selig has no choice now as all options have been exhausted.

by Sid3324 on Feb 27, 2012 3:16 PM EST reply actions  

One more thing

The Giants are the only team in MLB who have a city larger than where their stadium resides in their “assigned territory”.

by Sid3324 on Feb 27, 2012 3:20 PM EST up reply actions  

A's should look at Fremont

Lew Wolff should take a second look at Fremont location. This location centrally located (only 15-30 minutes) to San Jose and Silicon Valley. Rather than build a village there, build baseball stadium only. A’s will average 30,000 per game in Fremont. There will be no territorial issues or any payment to the Giants for the rights.

In 2009, Oakland A’s asked the city of Fremont to halt the planning process required to build a stadium. Fremont Vice Mayor was very disappointed that A’s didn’t let the process unfold. At the time Nummi auto plant officials who said the village would disrupt their business operations, but with Tesla with small operations should have no objections. Sure you nee studies on the adjacent wetlands and ballpark will create a traffic nightmare. Many merchants, residents and public officials embraced the plan, hoping it would raise the city’s profile and boost the economy. Mayor was devastated that the plan had fallen through.A’s didn’t giveg specific reasons for the team’s withdrawal, but the real reason was that Wolff wanted to purse San Jose location.

by nanimo on Mar 9, 2012 3:18 PM EST reply actions  

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