Al Yellon
Editor
A New York Mets Quiz - May 25
Grant Brisbee
Editor
'Mr. Loria: Tear. Down. That. Wall. Or Whatever The Hell That Is.' - May 26
Jeff Sullivan
Editor
How Close They've Come To The Sculpture - May 25
Rob Neyer
National Baseball Editor
Chone Figgins: M's Won't Play Him, Won't Dump Him - May 25
Dan Moore
Contributor
Joey Votto And The Twilight Of The Giant First Basemen - Apr 14
Jim Baker
Contributor
eBay Item Of The Day - May 25
Marc Normandin
Contributor
What's Wrong With Ike Davis? - May 25
Wendy Thurm
Contributor
Baseball On Par With Other Professional Sports In Dealing With Bad Umpires - May 20
By Rob Neyer - National Baseball Editor
The Dodgers' ace is coming off a Cy Young season in which he did almost everything a pitcher might do. And he was only 23. Is the best yet to come?
Follow @sbnbaseball on Twitter, and Like Baseball Nation on Facebook.
Feb 8, 2012 - As my friend David Schoenfield pointed out earlier today, according to Baseball-Reference.com the 10 pitchers most similar to Clayton Kershaw through age 23 were, in order of similarity, Vida Blue, Dontrelle Willis, Hal Schumacher, Ramon Martinez, Jimmy Dygert, Dean Chance, Dave Boswell, Ismael Valdéz, Al Mamaux, and Ken Holtzman.
That's a little misleading, though, because similarity scores are based on raw statistics, taking into account little or no context. Here are those same pitchers, but this time in order of ERA+ (ERA relative to league, with adjustments for home ballparks):
135 Clayton Kershaw
133 Dean Chance*
128 Ismael Valdéz
125 Dontrelle Willis
122 Vida Blue
120 Al Mamaux
119 Hal Schumacher
114 Ramon Martinez
106 Ken Holtzman
104 Dave Boswell
097 Jimmy Dygert
With the exception of Dygert, who pitched in the Dead Ball Era, all of these guys did pitch well. If they hadn't, they wouldn't have made the list. But many of them did their pitching in eras more pitcher-friendly than Kershaw's. When we adjust for eras (and ballparks), Kershaw obviously jumps to the head of the class.
But those next three pitchers on the list do make for the beginnings of a sad cautionary tale.
At 23, Dean Chance won the American League Cy Young Award; also, just like Kershaw, he won the pitcher's Triple Crown, leading his league in wins, ERA and strikeouts. He would enjoy four more solid seasons, after which his career went into the toilet real fast.
Ismael Valdéz, different story but also sad. He lasted for eight seasons after his outstanding Age 23 campaign, but was never really the same. After racking up that pretty 128 ERA+ through 23, he was just 94 for the rest of his injury-plagued career and managed double-figure victories (11 and 14) in two of those eight seasons.
And Dontrelle Willis, you know about. In the six seasons since his Age 23 season -- after which he finished second in the Cy Young balloting -- Willis has gone 26-42 with a 5.02 ERA.
What does all this tell us about Clayton Kershaw, specifically?
Not much. Except that the past does not perfectly predict the future, especially when it comes to young pitchers. There is an excellent chance that Clayton Kershaw will never again pitch as well as he did when he was 23 years old. The Dodgers were smart to get Kershaw's signature on a two-year, $19 million contract. But history does suggest that Kershaw will not still be a great pitcher four or five years from now.
I told you it was a sad tale.
Read More: Dontrelle Willis (P - BAL), Ramon Martinez (SS - NYM), Clayton Kershaw (P - LAD), Los Angeles Dodgers
Follow @sbnbaseball on Twitter, and Like Baseball Nation on Facebook.
16 comments
National Baseball Editor
Rob Neyer began his career with legendary baseball author Bill James, and later worked for STATS, Inc. and ESPN.com, writing more words for that website than anyone else. Rob has written or... Read full bio
SB Nation Profile
@robneyer
Subscribe to Rob Neyer
Miguel Montero, Diamondbacks Reportedly Agree To 5-Year Extension
Rockies Place Ramon Hernandez On DL With Hand Problem
Juan Carlos Oviedo Will Arrive In USA Monday, Report To Marlins Camp
Orioles DFA Bill Hall, Make Other Roster Moves
Pirates DFA One-Season Wonder Nate McLouth
Pablo Sandoval Swinging, Fielding
Yankees Sign John Maine To Minor-League Deal
Lance Berkman Injury: Out 8-10 Weeks After Knee Surgery
Orioles, Adam Jones Reportedly Agree To Extension +1
Ryan Howard Still Taking Batting Practice
More News »






Comments
Thanks for nothing
Thanks for the kick in the balls, Neyer. One of 2 good things going on with the entire franchise, and you gotta tell us it won’t last? Jerk.
by Tommy Lasordas Pasta on Feb 8, 2012 5:19 PM EST reply actions
Agreed.
I still believe a lefty can after a bit master third base
by DodgerofTrolleys on Feb 8, 2012 8:49 PM EST up reply actions
I’d kind of forgotten about Ismael Valdez because he’s been out of baseball so long, so I looked him up. He’s only 38 years old! Time for a comeback, Ismael!
by chapman_123 on Feb 8, 2012 5:30 PM EST reply actions
Maybe advances in treating pitchers will change this?
As a Dodger fan, I have noted that our managers have gradually increased the pitch counts he’s been allowed to have, and I wonder if that may change his prospects for a better long term career (as opposed to Tommy Lasorda working Fernando into the ground). What we know is that in his first few years he was good, and last year he was great. If he can maintain his ability to limit walks, he has the talent to still be great for years to come. Only time will tell if he’s able to do so.
by Matt Walker on Feb 8, 2012 5:55 PM EST reply actions
Chance
No need to put in the words American League in front of Cy Young for Dean Chance. Prior to 1967, there was only one Cy Young.
by jco on Feb 8, 2012 6:12 PM EST reply actions
Rob
did you write this about Lincecum a few years ago. This is absurd.
Ray Guilfoyle
www.faketeams.com
www.minorleagueball.com
www.mlbdailydish.com
by Ray Guilfoyle on Feb 8, 2012 6:45 PM EST reply actions
Nice sample size.
Most arguments are really about context.
by SheaWasBettor21 on Feb 8, 2012 6:47 PM EST up reply actions
so you agree
with this? that all of a sudden he become Dontrell Willis? Ismael Valdez? my gosh…..Kershaw was better than Halladay last year.
Ray Guilfoyle
www.faketeams.com
www.minorleagueball.com
www.mlbdailydish.com
by Ray Guilfoyle on Feb 8, 2012 6:59 PM EST up reply actions
And Lincecum.
I still believe a lefty can after a bit master third base
by DodgerofTrolleys on Feb 8, 2012 8:49 PM EST up reply actions
% Sliders
The sliders are definitely worrisome.
Most arguments are really about context.
by SheaWasBettor21 on Feb 8, 2012 6:47 PM EST reply actions
Interesting story
But basically the first thing Neyer tells us is that these comparables are not valid, since they don’t take context into account. Yet he uses them as cautionary tales anyway. It appears (at least from an ERA+ perspective) that Kershaw was better than any of these guys at age 23. I’d like to see a better set of comps.
by Craig from Az on Feb 8, 2012 7:49 PM EST reply actions
I'm curious why you wrote this about Kershaw...
There have been plenty of 23 year olds in recent years to whom you haven’t given this attention. Kershaw has many of the traits you like. He’s a former top prospect status and three solid years to back up this year’s performance. His age 23 season looks in line with what was expected. You’ll likely respond by saying you have nothing against Kershaw, which I believed when you wrote about the Cy Young. But now, I don’t know.
Bottom line: All pitchers are unpredictable. If King Felix gets injured tomorrow, he’ll resemble several pitchers that showed promise early on and couldn’t sustain. I sure hope that doesn’t happen. But why not write about him? Yes, Kershaw likely didn’t deserve the Cy Young (though he’s a fine candidate). But why this article?
by Real Tom on Feb 8, 2012 8:55 PM EST reply actions
Is it not obvious from his lead-in that he wrote it because of what his friend, David Schoenfield wrote in Neyer's former blog on ESPN?
Hello, McFly, think McFly….
by CLEAN88GT on Feb 9, 2012 12:02 AM EST up reply actions
Why Kershaw?
Probably because he just signed a contract extension, making him a relevant topic of conversation.
by thedunnedeal24 on Feb 9, 2012 7:30 AM EST up reply actions
Dean Chance
In the six seasons from age 22 to age 27, Chance had a 2.69 ERA, and averaged 16 wins a year. He also averaged 265 innings pitched. During that period, he thrice surpassed 275 innings.
My bet is the Kershaw never reaches 265 innings in a season, much less averages that. Teams are smarter about handling pitchers than they were back in Chance’s day, which gives Kershaw an advantage. Anyway, we have no idea if Kershaw might blow out his arm at 27, so let’s enjoy him now.
by thedunnedeal24 on Feb 9, 2012 7:29 AM EST reply actions
Similarity Scores Mistake
If you use some more realistic raw numbers like ERA+ of 125 or greater, IP and Ks of 650 or greater through age 23 season you get quite a different list of comparables for Kershaw:
Smokey Joe Wood 152
Walter Johnson 148
Christy Mathewson 139
Bob Feller 137
Dwight Gooden 135
Clayton Kershaw 135
Bert Blyleven 134
Frank Tanana 131
Don Drysdale 128
Felix Hernandez 125
Granted Kershaw has significantly fewer innings and starts than all of these pitchers through age 23, but he lands dead center in terms of ERA+. Pitchers don’t come up as young as they used to.
by Eugene Freedman on Feb 10, 2012 10:30 AM EST reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed