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Should BBWAA Institute A 'Ryan Braun Rule'?

Bob Costas argues that if Ryan Braun's drug suspension is upheld, the BBWAA should re-vote on the 2011 National League MVP Award, which Braun won. Is Costas right?

Feb 1, 2012 - A few weeks ago in the context of a larger discussion about all the baseball writers who have suddenly decided to consider the so-called "integrity clause" in the Hall of Fame's voting rules, I wrote this:

Mickey Mantle is beloved by most of the baseball writers of Terence Moore's generation. And then of course there's Bob Costas, who loves Mickey Mantle as much as anyone and has vociferously criticized any players who have been tainted by steroids.

But integrity and character? Really? Even leaving aside Mickey Mantle's thousands of infidelities and the fact that he essentially turned all of his sons into alcoholics and drug addicts, there's the little matter of him abusing his body throughout his career. Mantle is famous for arriving at the ballpark with hangovers. In fact, those stories are often told as jokes; it's so funny that a well-paid superstar routinely wasn't in condition to play his best. Hilarious stuff.

Just so we're straight on this, though ... If you routinely drink yourself into a stupor and show up for work half-drunk, you've got more integrity and character than if you do whatever you can to play as well as you can, within the established norms of your contemporary colleagues?

A week or so later, I spoke with Bob Costas. His position on this issue is more nuanced than I suggested, and I apologized to him (which isn't to suggest that he asked for one). Essentially -- and I wasn't taking notes so I apologize (again) to Bob if this isn't quite right -- he believes that if a Hall of Fame candidate is known to have used performance-enhancing drugs illegally and he's a borderline candidate, he shouldn't be elected. Or rather, if cheating made the difference between racking up Hall of Fame-level numbers or not, he shouldn't be elected.

So Mark McGwire: Out. Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens: In.*

* Though Costas says he probably wouldn't vote for even those guys until their second year on the ballot, just to make a point.

Now, I'm not saying we agree about everything. He does not, for example, see the link between steroids in the 1990s and amphetamines in the 1970s and '80s that I see. He does not believe that Jeff Bagwell was nearly as great as I believe. But we share more common ground on this issue than I thought. You might not agree with Costas, but at least he's taking each player as a separate case rather than simply separating everyone into two groups. Or even one, as some observers on both sides of the issue prefer.

Which is a roundabout way of saying that when I saw Costas's latest take on the subject of PEDs, I did my best to avoid the obvious knee-jerk reaction. Tuesday morning, Dan Patrick asked Costas about Ryan Braun's MVP, which by all accounts will be his forever, regardless of how appeal goes. From the Milwaukee Sentinel Journal's Bob Wolfley:

"I also do not understand the baseball writers' position," Costas said. "I understand the position that you will not be able to go back and yank guys out of the Hall of Fame if it's subsequently discovered that they used steroids. Or even that you can't take away A-Rod's MVP from years ago during a period of time that he has now acknowledged that he was among those who tested positive.

"But baseball ought to have a rule in place like the one football put in a few years ago," Costas said. "You may remember (Chargers' linebacker) Shawne Merriman (in 2006) was suspended for using performance enhancing drugs during the year, but he still made the Pro Bowl. Then they put in a rule that said, 'Look, you can't make the Pro Bowl or receive an honor in the year you have been sanctioned. Not suspected. Not Jose Canseco wrote a book. Not something that came up in the Mitchell Report. But under our official procedures you tested positive.' Well, (Braun) tested positive in October of the year he won the MVP. So I think - and I'm not taking a shot at Ryan Braun here, terrific player, seems like a good guy too - but I think you submit it to a re-vote. In which case Matt Kemp would easily win. In fact, if the Dodgers had been contenders, Kemp would have won anyway because he actually had a better year than Braun."

Of course I agree with Costas about Kemp v. Braun, MVP-wise; Kemp was the better, more valuable player last season.

But let me say that Costas is conflating two "solutions" that shouldn't necessarily be conflated.

The "Merriman Rule" was a response to the Shawne Merriman situation but didn't actually affect Shawne Merriman (except that he got a rule nicknamed after him). It was perfectly appropriate to make a rule and hold future players accountable. Maybe it would have been perfectly appropriate to hold Merriman accountable, too. But that's not what happened. And the problem with making such a rule retroactive is that it looks like you're targeting a single player. Which leaves you open to all sorts of reasonable charges.

If the BBWAA is going to do something, it should be done with great deliberation and target not a single identifiable player.

Should there be a "Ryan Braun Rule"? I don't think it's an unreasonable suggestion. Just as it's reasonable to bar a player from the Hall of Fame if he's been permanently suspended by Major League Baseball, it seems reasonable to disqualify a player from winning a major award if he's committed an offense that draws a 50-game suspension.

I'm not saying it's right. I haven't figured that out yet. I'm saying it's reasonable.

Poll
If you voted for Ryan Braun *and* you get another chance to vote, will you vote for Matt Kemp? Assuming that Braun is suspended for 50 games?
Yes
359 votes
No
420 votes

779 votes | Poll has closed

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Rob Neyer

National Baseball Editor

Rob Neyer began his career with legendary baseball author Bill James, and later worked for STATS, Inc. and ESPN.com, writing more words for that website than anyone else. Rob has written or... Read full bio


Comments

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This already happened...

In the NFL with Brian Cushing a few years back. Won DROY, tested positive for whatever, re-vote, and he still won the award. This would never happen in baseball, because apparently baseball is the only sport over which we get our panties bunched.

Anyway, I voted no in the poll. I would have voted Kemp (writers screwed that one up pretty bad; I didn’t think it was that close at all), but if the premise was that I already voted Braun, I’m not going to change it based on a positive test, particularly one that came in the postseason.

by gpat on Feb 1, 2012 3:35 PM EST reply actions  

Same here.
Anyway, I voted no in the poll. I would have voted Kemp (writers screwed that one up pretty bad; I didn’t think it was that close at all), but if the premise was that I already voted Braun, I’m not going to change it based on a positive test, particularly one that came in the postseason

Ross on Halladay: "I’d tried everything against him…going the other way, taking pitches, trying to walk…and nothing worked. I’d never tried going up there and just trying to hit a home run off him."
My boy has mad hops
I rant on Twitter

by scout6 on Feb 2, 2012 6:53 PM EST up reply actions  

I think the rule is sort of in place already

I mean, if a player misses almost a third of the games in a season, it’s going to be very difficult to be the Most Valuable Player just by virtue of playing time.

In a more literal sense, since Braun (or future players in his situation) was thought to be the better player, I fail to see how a drug test changes what happened in season, unless you want to apply a character clause to the MVP award. And this is before getting into the complexities of whet steroids actually do.

Furthermore, a rule like this just seems to complicate things. What if John Doe wins the 2012 MVP, then gets banned two weeks into the 2013 season? Technically, he didn’t test positive during the 2012 season, so does his MVP stand?

I would say no to the rule, but I try and decide on the MVP solely on performance anyway. In any case, I get the feeling Braun won’t be following up on his MVP award any time soon, so I feel no need to institute the rule right now.

by TheoHCH on Feb 1, 2012 4:45 PM EST reply actions  

Only if it's reciprocal

Since the BBWAA so frequently gives awards to players who, as it turns out, aren’t the most deserving. It seems reasonable to disqualify a writer from voting for major awards if he’s decided the top spot on his MVP ballot should go to Michael Young.

by hearshot on Feb 1, 2012 5:51 PM EST reply actions   3 recs

We need drug tests for the BBWA

Unfortunately, “stupid” is not a drug.

I suspect they’d mostly fail the sobriety test, though.

by J0SER on Feb 1, 2012 6:51 PM EST up reply actions  

I can't correlate this.

IIRC, Merriman served his suspension and still made the pro-bowl in his shortened season. Essentially this all took place in the same 2006 season, yes?

Braun’s MVP was for the 2011 regular season which was done and over with by the time his situation came to light (which was wrongfully disclosed btw).

Am I forgetting something? How are these two scenarios the same?

Interesting poll so far; 267 in – 50% yes – 49% no. “Poll – a – rizing”.

Ezekiel 25:17

by Tat14 on Feb 1, 2012 7:53 PM EST reply actions  

I echo what Tat14 said.

Braun tested positive in the post-season. Not the regular season, which the MVP award is CLEARLY for. By that logic, if he tested positive in spring training would there be a re-vote?

Now – in the hypothetical case that, let’s say, Braun tested positive towards the end of the season, and the BBWAA decided to do a re-vote, I would agree under the following circumstances. 1) That MLB fully disclose exactly when, where, and under what circumstances the drug test was administered and evaluated, open for full inquiry and disclosure about the scientists, involved, second samples, chain of custody, etc. – and obviously revealing EXACTLY which substance was found in Braun’s system and why that substance is considered to be performance-enhancing. 2) That Braun himself was allowed to fully disclose (if he so wished) the full circumstances of his test – what he took, why he took it, and why he believed that he did not need a medical exemption. 3) That Braun be allowed to cite his previous “clean” tests (if he wished) in order to demonstrate that the positive test was a one-time event. 4) That MLB launch a full investigation into who leaked the confidential report, and institute a policy that says any future leaks will result in immediate termination and (when relevant) fullest prosecution the law allows. 5) That any reporter who reports “leaked” information is subject to sanction by the BBWAA – by a vote of the current membership.

In other words, let’s say Braun took something hormonal for a single week, with a doctor’s prescription, unaware that it would trigger a positive test. That doesn’t mitigate his suspension – a banned substance is a banned substance – but it would give a proper context for re-voters to decide if Braun’s transgression was deliberate, an accident, or an odd technicality. Similarly, reporters need to be discouraged from printing leaked information without knowing more of the facts: a reporter with a vendetta or who needs a scoop could easily spread a rumor that a player has “reportedly” tested positive, knowing that it will be months before the appeal process is played out, putting undue pressure on MLB to remain “consistent” on punishing all alleged users equally as well as putting the player in an uncomfortable position of not being able to talk about the possible suspension or why it happened. Let’s put the writer up for a vote as well: if a majority of his peers agree that “yes, he should have printed the illegally leaked information even though it caused a lot of damage,” then he can stay.

by jdscott on Feb 2, 2012 1:00 AM EST reply actions  

"just to make a point"?

JUST TO MAKE A POINT? Who the fuck do you think you are, Bob Costas? Do you think you’re the God of Baseball because you hold the power to delay or deny a true Hall of Fame player’s being inducted? “Yeah, I’ll show that Barry Bonds a thing or two. He won’t get MY Hall vote until 2014. Hahahaha. Fix his ass. That’ll teach him.” Who the HELL do you think you are, Bob Costas? Who the HELL are you to force me to wait a year to see Barry Bonds’ plaque in the Hall, where it belongs? If he’s a Hall of Famer, I want to see his induction in 2013, and not a second later. I’m 54 years old, there’s an increasing chance I wouldn’t live to see Bonds go into the Hall while you’re just making a point.

The arrogance of these people, the working journalists who ignore, in fact violate at least two long-established rules of journalism ethics by deciding who profits and who doesn’t from their votes, and by themselves making news with their votes. The f**king NERVE of these people.

Come on, you cowards from the BBWAA. Challenge me on this. Gotta be some of you who read this site. Tell me why I’m wrong and you’re right to decide who makes money, and when, and who doesn’t, thanks to your votes.

Throws down gauntlet

by bucdaddy on Feb 2, 2012 1:28 AM EST reply actions  

Who the HELL do you think you are, Bob Costas? Who the HELL are you to force me to wait a year to see Barry Bonds’ plaque in the Hall, where it belongs?

There’s a sizable body of precedent supporting hall-worthy players being passed over on the first ballot (or longer) for matters far more trivial than steroid use (at this point I’m not even going to bother with “suspected,” because, well, come on). So I guess the answer is, “Costas thinks he’s a hall of fame voter following the long established practices of hall of fame voters.”

VAE PVTO DEVS FIO

by Bhaakon on Feb 2, 2012 2:50 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Tell you what,

when they rescind every honor and award they ever gave Bill Conlin, when they expel every member who ever abused his position or brought shame and ridicule on his/her profession and/or violated the long-established codes of ethics for working journalists (oh, wait, that would be all of them, all of them who ever voted to help a player cash in a bonus clause), then we can begin to have this discussion.

“You’ll go in the Hall of Fame when I SAY you can, boy, and not a moment sooner.”

holds ballot over Roger Clemens’ head

Sorry, I’m just making a point.

“There’s a sizeable … far more trivial than steroid use”

You are certainly right about that, but I think that helps makes MY point about arrogance and too much point-making going on. When it becomes more about the voters’ agendas than about honoring the greatest players in baseball history, then IMO the voting process loses its legitimacy.

by bucdaddy on Feb 2, 2012 9:31 AM EST up reply actions  

The hell? Something weird happened there.

Anyway, I was saying: When they rescind every honor and award they ever gave Bill Conlin and when they expel every member who ever abused his/her position, or brought disrepute upon his or her profession, or who ever violated long-established codes of journalism ethics (oh wait, that would be all of them, all of them who ever helped a player cash in his bonus clauses with their votes), then we can begin to have this conversation.

Meanwhile, “You’ll get into the Hall when I SAY you get into the Hall, boy, and not a moment sooner, because I and only I have the power to put you in” strikes me as the height of arrogance.

I’m just making a point here.

“There’s a sizeable body … far more trivial than steroid use”

You got that right. But I think it only helps to make my point. When the voting becomes more about the various individual agendas of the voters than about honoring the greatest players in baseball history — when the vote is used as a weapon for punishment — then the vote, IMO, is invalidated.

by bucdaddy on Feb 2, 2012 9:39 AM EST up reply actions  

But if steroid use inflates your numbers

it is arguable whether those players are indeed some of the greatest to ever play the game.

by aronofsky40 on Feb 2, 2012 9:41 AM EST up reply actions  

I know I got off track a little here

and away from the issue that the post meant to discuss, which was about steroids use. I tend to agree with your comment below, that perhaps we should wait out the appeals process before we do anything.

The BBWAA should be fine with that, they’re all full of “waiting for wisdom” and nonsense like that, so if they revoke Braun’s award in, say, 2019, once all the wisdom has been accumulated, then that should be fine with them.

If I’m thinking of juicing, though, this isn’t going to be a deterrent. In the unlikely event I win the MVP or Cy Young, if I’ve already cashed my bonus check, let’s see them make me give it back. MLB would have to get involved somehow and strip the TEAM of all honors and awards it received while you were juiced, vacate the Brewers’ division title and fine them the equivalent of their postseason profits. THEN I bet you’d see some vigilance in the clubhouse and the front office.

BTW, one precedent nobody has mentioned: Olympic medalists are sometimes stripped of their medals when it’s proven they were juiced, sometimes years and years afterward.

Example:

LONDON — Fifteen months after the Beijing Olympics, Bahraini middle-distance runner Rashid Ramzi was stripped of his 1,500-meter gold medal Wednesday and four other athletes were disqualified because of doping at the games.

(source: New York Post)

And, of course, the NCAA sometimes revises history by pretending games and titles won with the use of ineligible players never happened.

by bucdaddy on Feb 2, 2012 9:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Option 3: Don't care

Is it wrong to say that I don’t care?

I don’t mean that in a glib or aggressive way, just that whoever gets the MVP is of no importance to me or the team I follow (yeah, clearly not a Brewers or Dodgers fan here!).

Why should I care what the consensus of the subjective view of a group of writers is? I’m sure Ryan Braun cares a lot, and so does Matt Kemp. And a large number of fans of both teams, and team-mates, and other players who hope to win the award.

But the MVP award is as tainted to me as the Hall of Fame vote – because control over it is in the hands of a non-elected, self-rightous clique (although strictly-speaking too many to be a clique) whose opinion is no better than mine.

Honestly, if I ever met a member of the BBWAA I wouldn’t be angry with them, I’d just shrug my shoulders and say something along the lines of “BBWAA? So what. Can you really tell me why your opinion is more important than mine?” and wait for their illuminating reply.

Braun or Kemp? It really doesn’t mean anything to me.

So yes; good for a discussion but where’s the 3rd option: “Don’t Care” or “Too busy looking out for Spring to bother thinking about it.”.

by Penfolds11 on Feb 2, 2012 2:40 AM EST reply actions  

"But ... but ... but ...

We see a lot of games! And … and … we get to go in the clubhouse and hobnob with the players, almost like we’re just as important as them! And … and … and we’ve been around a long time, yessir. And if we didn’t hold these votes, who would? WHO WOULD?"

by bucdaddy on Feb 2, 2012 9:43 AM EST up reply actions  

A "Ryan Braun" rule would be a fine idea going forward.

Although a re-vote shouldn’t occur until after the appeal has been finished to give a player a chance to prove his innocence.

I’m not sure this will serve as much of a deterrent from PED use, as I’m not sure the financial benefits of winning the MVP are substantial compared with the financial benefits of using PEDs.

But there’s no reason the behavior needs to be rewarded.

by aronofsky40 on Feb 2, 2012 3:50 AM EST reply actions  

The problem with hall voters, in a single sentence.
* Though Costas says he probably wouldn’t vote for even those guys until their second year on the ballot, just to make a point.

It’s not their responsibility to make a point.

Ross on Halladay: "I’d tried everything against him…going the other way, taking pitches, trying to walk…and nothing worked. I’d never tried going up there and just trying to hit a home run off him."
My boy has mad hops
I rant on Twitter

by scout6 on Feb 2, 2012 6:48 PM EST reply actions  

Here's where Costas is full of crap (again):

If his “point” is that he believes Bonds and Clemens juiced, and aren’t worthy of first-ballot HoF induction, even though all the evidence is circumstantial, then he should be campaigning to rescind THEIR MVPs and Cy Youngs. But he doesn’t have any proof, so he can’t do that. Instead he’s fudging, trying to have it both ways. “There’s not enough evidence — in fact, not ANY hard evidence — for me to suggest we take away your awards, but I’m still going to nyah-nyah you when you come up for the HoF vote. Just to prove a point.”

And that’s just horseshit. Hey Bob, if you have evidence nobody else does that Bonds and Clemens juiced, then show the rest of us. But if you’re just suspicious, then all their awards are legitimate, and YOU’RE the one who loses credibility if you think a seven-time MVP and a seven-time Cy Young winner aren’t first-ballot HoFers.

by bucdaddy on Feb 3, 2012 1:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Rule

Name it after Ken Caminiti or A-rod, hell even Bonds

by JokerJSK on Feb 2, 2012 9:47 PM EST reply actions  

Kemp more valuable? Respectfully disagree

Maybe the Dodgers wouldn’t have finished third without Kemp, but would the Brewers have won the division without Braun? To me THAT’s the mark of value, regardless of raw numbers.

Ron Kaplan

by RonKaplanNJ on Feb 3, 2012 11:43 AM EST reply actions  

as of 2/24/2012 Braun is still guilty by me

exonerated by a technicality, hooray for RB, he is such a nuce guy, whatever fig leaf we have to use, we have to use it.

But no, the games were played, the MVP vote was taken. It’s not like Matt Kemp needs the money or recognition. Let all of it stand.

by Pennant on Feb 24, 2012 8:45 AM EST reply actions  

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