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Aug 9, 2011 - Michael Young recently collected his 2,000th hit.
I didn't really notice. If I had noticed, I wouldn't have done anything. Right or wrong, fair or not, that particular number just doesn't resonate with me. Perhaps because someone else just reached 3,000. Perhaps because I've witnessed someone reach 4,000 hits. I don't know ... without looking anything up, 2,000 hits seems to me akin to 400 home runs, or 150 wins for a pitcher. A lovely accomplishment, but not worth getting into a lather about.
Anyway, you can definitely count Aaron Gleeman among the Great Unlathered ...
Young is the 234th player to reach 2,000 hits, which isn’t exactly exclusive company. By comparison, only 202 hitters have 250 homers and 203 pitchers have 150 wins, and no one really makes a big deal about either of those milestones.
Young is the 20th active player in the 2,000-hit club and Adrian Beltre, Juan Pierre, Paul Konerko, Jason Giambi, Placido Polanco, and Derrek Lee are all in the 1900-1,999 range.
Oh. Two thousand hits is significantly less common than 400 home runs or 150 wins.
All this seems innocuous enough, doesn't it. Sure, it might be impolite for Gleeman to mention at the Young Family Reunion. Or in the Rangers' clubhouse within earshot of Mr. 2000. But the numbers are the numbers, and nowhere in his post did Gleeman suggest that Michael Young is anything less than a fine player and a model citizen.
Still, that simple numbers-based post brought a cascade of tweets from Brandon McCarthy, a one-time teammate of Young's. Here they are, all put together for your reading convenience:
I read A LOT of nonsense on a daily basis, but this tops the charts today.
"Young is the 234th player to reach 2,000 hits, which isn’t exactly exclusive company" That's like what, 1 out of every 3 people on earth?
"Even reaching 2,000 hits by age 34 isn’t that rare" You're right guy, we should probably stone him in a public square for failing us all.
Every single thing that happens, doesn't have to be contextualized historically. Some things are nice moments. Leave em alone.
Our friend C.J. Nitkowski weighed in, too:
@B__McCarthy 234th player out of 17K to ever play. You know the drill, these guys try to see who can say the dumbest thing 4 most attention.
I don't know. There's some of that, I guess. But I've seen a lot of dumb things on the Web, and Gleeman's post about Michael Young wouldn't make the Top 10,000 List.
Gleeman saw all of those tweets, of course, and finally offered this:
I like @B__McCarthy and his Twitter feed a lot, so his ripping me does make me sad. I'll stop trying to defend myself and just take it.
Five years ago, we wouldn't be having this conversation, because even if Brandon McCarthy and C.J. Nitkowski had read Gleeman's post (which they probably wouldn't have), they wouldn't have had any forum in which to respond.
Twitter's changed all of that, and for the better.
But just in case any of our baseball-playing friends don't realize this, let me be very clear about something, right now and forever ...
We get it.
Oh, I won't suggest that we understand what baseball players go through, to get where they are. We probably underestimate the problems that come with being on the road all the time, and having your fates determined by luck and injuries and opportunities. We don't know anything, really, about your inner lives.
What we do understand is how good you are at what you do. I can promise you, with metaphysical certitude, that Aaron Gleeman knows almost exactly how rare Michael Young's talents are; that Michael Young is one of the few hundred most talented hitters on the whole planet; that what Brandon McCarthy can do every five days (when his shoulder allows) is among the rarest talents in all of sports.
People like me spend a fair amount of time running down Jeff Francoeur's talent, mostly because he's wildly overrated by some baseball men, mostly because Francoeur's a good-looking guy who smiles a lot and is great fun to be around. You know what, though? We also understand that if Francoeur weren't incredibly talented, he wouldn't be able to uncork a throw like this, or rank among MLB's 100 best hitters over these last three seasons.
My baseball-playing friends, you have to understand that we're not writing for you. We're writing for us: All the millions of mere mortals who could never, for any number of reasons, do what you do. We would like to do what you do. We admire what you do, and celebrate what you do. But we also analyze what you do, and we're compelled to point out the relative merits of what you do.
We can't write for you. Lenny Dykstra tried that. Turns out there aren't enough hyper-talented professional athletes to support a glossy magazine. And if you can't even support one of Dykstra's brilliantly conceived business ventures, how do you expect us to include you in our target audience?
23 comments
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Comments
I can't believe Juan Pierre has that many hits.
by creasy bear on Aug 9, 2011 3:33 PM EDT reply actions
Why not?
Consistently health. Always bats leadoff. Refuses to take walks.
That’s the recipe right there if there ever was one.
by Brendl on Aug 9, 2011 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
what's shocking is that he still has a job
the only organization of humans responsible for more evil in the universe than the philadelphia phillies is the boston red sox
lets just use our 2012 money for something good and not another wigginton
by papality on Aug 9, 2011 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Not at all shocking...
when u realize Ned Colletti, Jim Hendry, and Mike Rizzo still have jobs.
by Brendl on Aug 10, 2011 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Understanding Target Audience
Your point about players not being the intended target audience is a good one. Over the years I’ve seen many, many instances of a player or coach getting enraged about something they read in the paper or heard on radio. The only thing I’ve heard in response is some version of “You’ve got to ignore that stuff.” Your explanation is calm and reasonable and team management (especially in major markets) would do well to take time to explain the underlying premise to their players.
As far as 2,000 goes it’s a number. By itself it means nothing. Connected to several other data points (2,000 of what? hits, BB or K’s and age when attained) it could be very impressive, merely average or very poor. In Young’s case it is a nice little milestone. It’s not indicative of a career pointing towards Cooperstown. When Pujols passed 2,000 earlier in the year it was more notable because he is younger and he has been performing at a historic pace in several statistical categories for a decade. What players need to keep in mind when they hear/read stuff is when deciding whether a player is great or not we compare their achievements against the greats. Saying Young’s better than me means nothing. A player with one major league hit is way better than me. Heck, at 13 years old my kid was already better than I ever was as a player. Likewise being better at the sport does not necessarily mean one has any historical perspective about significance of reaching various milestones.
by LargeBill on Aug 9, 2011 3:44 PM EDT reply actions
I wrote a piece about Tim Wakefield being a wizard. He read it, and he didn’t get it. I wanted to e-mail him a sort-of apology, while also pointing out that it wasn’t for him. It was for the nerdiest of the baseball nerds.
I’m terrified that players might stumble upon my crap. It’s not for you! Stay away! Let us have the A/V club to ourselves!
by Grant Brisbee on Aug 9, 2011 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope Hunter Pence reads McC.
Have you seen my son's velocity?
Pithy.
by Lies and Perfidy on Aug 9, 2011 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I bet R.A. Dickey would have understood
Hic sunt fortuna dracones
by JaysfanDL on Aug 10, 2011 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
I'll note, if there have been roughly 17,000+ players in the history of MLB...
…and say half of them are hitters (I don’t count pitchers who bat, because they’re not in the lineup every day), for 234 to reach 2,000 hits that’s under 3% of all hitters to ever play the game at this level.
Whatever Gleeman’s opinion of the milestone or how it was honored, it’s still a very small list to reach that, let alone the ones who have done it for one team.
Last of the Ninth - Photography
by Flashfire on Aug 9, 2011 5:06 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I kinda have to agree with McCarthy on this one...
I understand that Aaron Gleeman was just trying to point out that the 2,000 hits milestone is more common than one might guess, but I think the tone was off. He made it sound like this achievement was being over-covered and blown out of proportion even though I don’t think the coverage was any more than a comparable player would receive for hitting their 300th homer, especially if such a player had many years left to play and did all the work with one team.
Michael Young is also a guy who has gotten a hard time from the “stats” community in large part because he’s overrated by certain people in baseball, which isn’t something he can exactly control (except perhaps by playing worse). I know he was criticized for being so reluctant to move from SS to 3B and then 3B to Util/DH, but I can certainly understand why he’d be reluctant to make those switches. When the Bobby Abreus or Jim Edmondses hit these milestones, I feel like the occasion is used to remind everyone how impressive their careers are rather than belittle the accomplishment. Being stats-inclined and a former teammate of Young’s, I’m sure McCarthy is aware of all that.
by swatnick on Aug 9, 2011 5:16 PM EDT reply actions
me too.
And I’ll add this: This may not have been Gleeman’s intention, but in the context of the analytical community’s general disdain for Michael Young’s contributions in general, it just seems like an opportunity for another analyst to tinkle all over Michael Young’s accomplishments, when there was no reason to do so.
He has the most hits in Rangers history, so it would make sense for them to celebrate his milestone, especially when he’s having an excellent season after the team tried to kick him to the curb over the winter. He doesn’t deserve sainthood for this (and his game is certainly flawed), but he’s a good team player who has been going strong for a decade now with one club, through thin and (finally now) thick. The Rangers were right to celebrate him.
by Stephen Suffron on Aug 9, 2011 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Rangers were right to celebrate the achievement
Doesn’t mean the fans outside of Texas should care.
I never expected that most people would really care that Jeter outhit Gehrig. Maybe the Yanks (and Jeter) get more publicity so it was a bigger story, but I’d wager fans from other fanbases didn’t really care as much as they did whether their team won or lost that day.
by CMH_YP on Aug 9, 2011 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's exactly what I was thinking
Jeter chasing Gehrig is a great New York story, but in that case the national press picked it up and I don’t think it should have.
These mini-milestones are great local stories, though. Promotes current players and often appreciates franchise history which I’m all for. Best for writers in other markets to simply downplay it rather than pooh-pooh it.
by DavidRF on Aug 9, 2011 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Was it a national story?
I hadn’t heard about it until I read about it here. The Rangers should celebrate it. If other people want to shrug, then shrug. But writing a column belittling the accomplishment just smacks of meanness toward a player (or type of player) that this particular community believes gets too much credit. So they take a little glee in throwing rocks at the milestone.
by Stephen Suffron on Aug 9, 2011 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions
through 2010, only 85 players had ever had 2000 hits for a single franchise and only 46 of those had as many HRs as Young to go with it…
Only 23 franchises have a single player with 2000+ hits… and none of the other seven have anyone who is even remotely close [esp considering most of the closest ones are currently on other teams]
by erosen on Aug 10, 2011 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
But..
No one really cares that much about 2,000 hits is I think the point here.
Is it significant in a player’s career? Yes. Much like me getting an A in Physics was a significant moment my student career. Yet, when my parents looked at my report card, they want to see how I did in ALL of my classes.
That’s what 2,000 hits is here. It’s a significant moment in Young’s career, but as a baseball fan, it isn’t 3,000 hits which is the pedestal we’ve built to determine exclusivity for the very best of hitters.
Do we think Young is any less of a great hitter? No. It’s just that he achieved an accomplishment that really isn’t all that special to baseball fans. Which is probably what Neyer is getting at in his response. The original comment was made for the fan, not the player.
by CMH_YP on Aug 9, 2011 5:28 PM EDT reply actions
Twitter....
… seems such an annoying thing, to me, which is why I never partake of it. I really don’t have any need to know the immediate and random thoughts of anyone that I can think of. I guess some of you who are part of it like the potential of a tweeter to embarrass themselves, which inane immediate and random comments can sometimes do, and makes good copy, conversation and comedic material, or the chance for another to shout from the soapbox.
I’m sure I am in the minority with my dislike for this, though.
"We praise or blame as one or the other affords more opportunity for exhibiting our power of judgment." Friedrich Nietzsche, "Human,All Too Human" (1878)
by wgarrett on Aug 9, 2011 5:30 PM EDT reply actions
Well, it just isn’t anyone. You can pick and chose the people you follow. Conversations in a bar over beer consist of immediate and random thoughts. Twitter is just an internet version of that conversation with people you decide to listen to.
The Andy MacPhail plan: "Grow nothing. Buy the pen," (Wieters Weiner 2011).
by birdman on Aug 9, 2011 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
If it’s a minority, it’s a quite vocal one.
Aren’t all of these things true of forums, on which you are currently posting?
by Rujasu on Aug 9, 2011 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I may have missed it...
but did Michael Young getting 2,000 hits really get that much attention? I remember seeing a link to a story on ESPN and a mention on this site. I think the coverage was pretty commensurate with the accomplishment.
(I’m not really tech-savvy enough to do this correctly but his google trend did not show much of a blip.) http://www.google.com/trends?q=%22michael+young%22%2C+rangers&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0)
by swatnick on Aug 9, 2011 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions
There’s only one other thing I can think of that inspires people to share more of themselves then anyone cares to know – cocaine.
by j reed on Aug 9, 2011 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions
The baseball databank database has 260 players through 2010 with 2000+ hits, so not sure where 234th comes from.
I suppose if you want to build a list that he comes out pretty highly on— through 2010, he is one of just 99 players with 1800 hits, 40 triples, 75 SB and 150 HR.
Through 2010, there were only 52 other players with as many hits, doubles, triples, HRs, SB and walks as him [granted, some others besides him might have crossed that as well]
by erosen on Aug 10, 2011 4:07 PM EDT reply actions
Michael Young's Greatest Accomplishment
Between 234 and 260 players may have gotten 2000 hits, but Michael Young is the only one who inspired a video of a kid crying on You Tube when it looked like he was going to be traded. Even Jeter hasn’t accomplished that.
by Jay Essman on Aug 11, 2011 2:16 AM EDT reply actions
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