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The Zen Master And Amateur Baseball Players

What will be the long-term impact of the rules in the new labor agreement regarding amateur players? A lot of really smart people think they already know, exactly.

Nov 22, 2011 - Wow. Five more years of labor peace ensured, zero public rancor between the owners and the players, and yet all anyone's talking about in the TwitterBlogoSphere is how terrible the new Collective Bargaining Agreement is.

Jason Churchill: "One thing is clear -- owners don't get it. MLB will certainly lose more players to other sports and to college with the new regulations."

Ben Badler: "Whoever negotiated the CBA must not have a clue what happens, and what is about to happen, in Latin America."

Kevin Goldstein: "You know how the Royals have a great system? They did that through spending big money on the draft. Strategy now basically illegal."

Dan Szymborski: "Great news about draft pick cap. It's about time these fat cat Dominican kids stop stealing money from poor owners."

Jeff Passan: "Philosophies, strategies, advantages -- gone. These new rules are game changers in the strictest sense of the words."

Joe Sheehan: "Just keep coming back to how...communistic...new CBA makes market for foreign amateurs. The incentives to be great at that are gone."

Szymborski, again: "I don't see how baseball benefits as a whole by turning Joe Mauers from Twins catchers to Seminole quarterbacks."

That's just a small sample. I would have found more, but I unfollowed a bunch of guys who are always talking about football and other trivial subjects.

Of course, sometimes you need more than 140 characters, and here's just a small bit from Brien's piece -- headlined The new CBA is terrible -- over at It's About the Money Stupid:

The biggest changes are to the treatment of amateur players, and the top line analysis here is that I felt like vomiting as these details were released. They’re that bad...

--snip--

Suffice it to say, this is a truly terrible deal, basically the worst case scenario and then some. It’s a horrible deal for amateur players, and will certainly push a large amount of them to college, and a fairly substantial number of young athletes to other sports altogether. In Latin America, the incentive for MLB teams to invest in developing new talent is gone, and you can expect a noticeable drop off in the talent level coming from that avenue, probably pretty soon.

One thing that everyone seems to forget about labor negotiations (and politics, and just about everything else): they've got nothing to do with right and wrong. They have everything to do with interests and leverage.

Of course the new CBA shifts money from draft picks to union members. The owners made it very clear that they wanted to save money (that's an interest) and the union members didn't want it coming from their pockets (that's another interest). Both sides have leverage, of course, so the obvious solution was to find someone with no leverage at all: amateur baseball players, both in the States and beyond international borders.

Tough darts. It's too bad for them, but that's the way the world has always worked and always will. If you don't believe, the next time you're negotiating for something, ask the person on the other side of the table if you can call in an ethicist. And let me know how that goes.

Leaving aside the morality of the new rules about amateur players, there's been an incredible rush to judgment regarding the practical impact.

Last June, the Kansas City Royals drafted a phenomenal schoolboy athlete named Bubba Starling. Playing for a small high school a few miles from Kansas City, Bubba was All-State in baseball, football, basketball, and looking really fantastic in his letter jacket. The Royals grabbed him with the fifth pick in the first round of the Rule 4 draft. The suggested "slot money" for that pick was something like $3.5 million. When the kid finally signed -- thus eschewing a scholarship to play quarterback at Nebraska -- he got $7.5 million.

That's a huge difference, obviously. And it's led a great many observers to suggest -- nay, to argue -- that if the new system had been in play last June, the Royals either wouldn't have drafted Starling, or they would have drafted him but not been able to sign him.

Which is wildly speculative.

Starling and his agent held out for $7.5 million because they knew they could get $7.5 million. What if they knew that $4 million was the Royals' limit? Last I checked, $4 million was still a pretty fair amount of money. As great an athlete as Starling is, the odds are largely against him someday being worth $4 million in the NFL draft.

You know who's got a lot of interest in drafted amateurs getting huge contracts? Scouts, and draft experts. If Major League Baseball loses just one extra player to football or basketball, the scouts and the draft experts will be pained. I don't blame them. I don't want to lose any great players to other sports, either. But I suspect the number of great players who will actually be lost is being greatly exaggerated today.

It's been said many times today that the new rules hurt the Royals and the Pirates, who have been spending a great deal of money in the draft in recent years. But what if they can get the same players they've been getting, while spending less money? Doesn't that actually help them?

I'm not saying I have all the answers. We both know I don't. But I think it's far too early for say exactly what effect the new rules about amateurs will have on competitive balance and quality of play, generally.

My guess, though? Whether positive or negative, the overall impact will be small enough that it's difficult to measure.

Sure, maybe it's the end of the world. But we can't know that yet. Today, I feel fine.

And I'm reminded, as I so often am, of the story about the Zen master and the little boy.

We'll see.

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Rob Neyer

National Baseball Editor

Rob Neyer began his career with legendary baseball author Bill James, and later worked for STATS, Inc. and ESPN.com, writing more words for that website than anyone else. Rob has written or... Read full bio


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I don’t know that this changes things like the drafting of Starling but I don’t think the Pirates end up with both Cole and Bell after this year’s draft. And that’s where the big changes will be. Teams won’t be able to load up on top prospects by going way over slot anymore. If you believe that the draft was a place where market inefficiencies existed that teams could exploit then that’s going to go away to a large extent and the low revenue teams will have to try and find an advantage elsewhere. I hope they succeed.

by Drakos on Nov 22, 2011 8:28 PM EST reply actions  

Heaven forbid that we should force someone to go to college!

Gosh, they might learn something. How bad would that be for the owners?

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring". ~Rogers Hornsby

by extavernmouse on Nov 22, 2011 9:18 PM EST reply actions  

You know, I’m unconvinced by this argument. A kid who wants to go to college for academics will go somehow—Greg Oden is working toward his degree even after making millions in the NBA. (I think he promised his mom.) A kid who doesn’t want to go, and has no interest in it, shouldn’t be on a college campus.

by clashfan on Nov 22, 2011 9:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, it's not like Oden

has played any basketball since getting drafted

by theterminizer on Nov 22, 2011 11:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Fair point, but..

The kids who don’t want to go to college and have no interest will sign anyway. It’s the Josh Bells of the world, who had every intention of going, that might not be paid enough to change their minds like they used to be.

by jsantoro12 on Nov 23, 2011 9:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Question for you Rob...

First, I tend to agree with those that have lampooned the agreement, mainly because of the change in treatment of the amateur players. That said, what are the chances that because of this fairly radical change we see stories about the potential for Anti-trust suits against MLB? Slim or none? Just curious what you think.

by CLEAN88GT on Nov 22, 2011 9:50 PM EST reply actions  

Gotta say, Rob

The “Here’s what everyone is saying on Twitter! But I disagree!” opening is getting a bit overused in your articles.

by tomemos on Nov 22, 2011 10:11 PM EST reply actions  

Please cite four previous examples within the last four months.

If you can, I will ponder this issue at length.

If you can’t, I’m going to guess it’s not really a big problem.

by Rob Neyer on Nov 23, 2011 2:18 AM EST up reply actions   3 recs

Here's what I'll do instead

I don’t have time to go through the archives, but here are two examples off the top of my head, and you can decide if they’re representative:
http://mlb.sbnation.com/2011/4/20/2121775/Colby-Lewis-paternity-leave
http://mlb.sbnation.com/2011/7/27/2296871/braves-pirates-umpire-jerry-meals

But if your standard is, “If I don’t do it five times in four months, it’s not a problem,” then you probably won’t be convinced.

by tomemos on Nov 23, 2011 11:52 AM EST up reply actions  

Three times in eight months.

Yeah. I’m actually okay with that frequency. Thanks for making me feel better about it.

by Rob Neyer on Nov 23, 2011 1:08 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Agreed, but...

…perhaps it appears to that there is group-think going on here, with a bunch of other people jumping on the bandwagon, but I think it’s simply more a case of many of the smart people you follow are just that: smart. If they universally think it’s a bad idea, well, it’s probably because it’s a bad idea.

Yes, baseball will survive, just as it survived after Puerto Rico amateurs were absorbed into the amateur draft, but it turned out it wasn’t a good thing for professional baseball in Puerto Rico, for MLB and for fans of the game. The game more than survived, yet it was a very bad thing.

This may be even worse, but let’s say it will be just kind of bad. Perhaps baseball will only lose two or three percent of it’s talent, and maybe only a few HOFers we’ll now never know. I guess that’s not bad. Oh, wait…it’s horrific.

by LordD99 on Nov 23, 2011 3:07 AM EST reply actions  

Kevin Goldstein is right, though

The Royals’ strategy of spending a lot of money in the draft is now basically illegal.

And I’m a little skeptical about the claim that Mr. Top Talent isn’t going to be able to hold out for more money. Let’s say some Bryce Harper type comes a long and wants a lot of money, and also wants to play for the Yankees. He announces that he wants $12 mil sign. Now, the top-drafting team could take him, try to sign him, and lose their top pick for next year. (For the next two years, if they sign anyone else.) That’s a crushing blow for the franchise; he’d better turn out to be worth two top draft picks and $24 million.

Or the Yankees could take him, sign him, brush off the $12 million and lose their next two first-round picks. It doesn’t matter to them, because they usually don’t use first-round picks. Since 2005, they’ve drafted above slot 28 exactly once, and that was a free-agent comp pick. One of the two times they drafted in their own slot, they didn’t sign the guy (one Gerrit Cole). Not having a first-rounder just isn’t a big deal to the team.

You could point out that under the new system, the Yankees would have first-round picks to give up, because they don’t lose their picks for signing a free agent. But doesn’t that just emphasize the problem? Anyway, three #30 picks are less valuable than two top-five picks.

Not actually affiliated with whygavs.

by WHYG Zane Smith on Nov 23, 2011 8:49 AM EST reply actions  

This might change things

Not sure if it’s true, but I thought I read somewhere that the slot recommendations will be negotiated with the MLBPA, and are likely to be much more realisitic than previously. If the top pick cap is something like $10 million – comparable to previous years – wouldn’t that solve a lot of the problems? Not too many players would be worth more than that anyway, and those that are would make it worth skimping in the second or third rounds.

Of course if I’m mistaken and the first pick cap is like $500 and a bag of sunflower seeds, then all these doomsday scenarios might come true, but I think judgment should hold off a little bit at least until the recommendations are known.

by jsantoro12 on Nov 23, 2011 10:03 AM EST reply actions  

Well, yes.

All the Chicken Littles yesterday didn’t have any actual figures, $$$-wise.

When we have those figures, then somebody can start running through the math and try to make some educated guesses about the practical impact of the new rules.

Until then, everything is just colored bubbles.

by Rob Neyer on Nov 23, 2011 1:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, maybe.

Colored bubbles are cool.

Seriously, though, if the dollars are still be be negotiated, then the Chicken LIttles are doing a good thing right now by highlighting the potential dangers of lower caps.

To me, the bigger issue is the capping of international signings and the potential impact that has on MLB teams’ scouting and development money in foreign markets. There has to be some correlation between the amount of money a team spends in a market based on the competitve advantage it brings to the the team. If the money decreases, then so will the development and the talent base.

To me it’s not a question of is this good or bad. There’s no way that it’s good and it’s clear it’s bad. The question is how bad. As you noted, we’ll know better when we see the math, but even then, we really won’t know for several years, and by then the damage will be done.

by LordD99 on Nov 23, 2011 2:43 PM EST up reply actions  

I Think MLB....

…. knows exactly what they are doing, and so do the players. They know what’s best for the league’s health and vitality.

"We praise or blame as one or the other affords more opportunity for exhibiting our power of judgment." Friedrich Nietzsche, "Human,All Too Human" (1878)

by wgarrett on Nov 23, 2011 1:20 PM EST reply actions  

How does the MLBPA have the standing to bargain this away?

Will the affected drafted players get big league union benefits even if they are not placed on the ML roster? If not, on what grounds is it appropriate for the MLBPA to bargain away the rights of players it doesn’t even represent?

Who is representing the interests of the thousands of players who toil in the minors for essentially poverty wages?

by Michael_K on Nov 23, 2011 5:04 PM EST reply actions  

Interests.

Nobody represents the interests of minor-league players.

Meanwhile, draft rules are part of the Collective Bargaining Agreement because draft picks are involved in compensation for free agents. If not for that — as I understand it — the MLBPA would have no standing to negotiate draft rules.

by Rob Neyer on Nov 23, 2011 10:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Isn't there a huge distinction here though?

I don’t see how the system of free agent compensation through draft picks (or the Rule V draft for that matter) deprives amateurs or minor leaguers of anything.

I can’t think of any precedent where the MLBPA agreed to something which forces its non-members to relinquish their rights without their consent or participation in the negotiations.

by Michael_K on Nov 25, 2011 1:12 PM EST reply actions  

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